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With the announcement of Nelson Mandela's death, two of South Africa's cultural giants - the playwright Athol Fugard and the actor and director Dame Janet Suzman - talk to Philip Dodd about the man they knew, his fight against apartheid and his legacy. And Philip discusses immigration in the UK with David Goodhart, director of the think tank Demos, founder of the magazine Prospect and author of The British Dream: Successes and Failures of Postwar Immigration, and Edward Mortimer, who was Director of Communications in the Executive Office of the United Nations Secretary General and who writes leaders for the Financial Times. Producer: Neil Trevithick.